Stop Pushing Clients Away With Too Much Education and Pull Them In with Curiosity and Connection Instead

Ali Katz:
This is one of the big shifts that all of us as lawyers really get to start to make. And that is going from somebody who tells people things to somebody who is curious with people and is connecting with people at a different level, right? People don't want to work with lawyers because of certain traits that we just maybe naturally have, we're more trying to educate people instead of really learn what's important to them.

Ali Katz:
Hello, and welcome to the NewLaw Podcast, where we guide entrepreneurial lawyers to build law practices into businesses they love. I'm Ali Katz.

Ali Katz:
In this episode, you're going to hear me work with Personal Family Lawyer Steve on how to create real connection with the people he's speaking within his community about estate planning instead of just telling them things, how to use curiosity in the right way so that he's answering questions at the right time. And if you've ever wondered what is our life and legacy planning session process, and what does that look like, then this episode is going to give you an inside view, as well as support you to set some very clear goals for yourself so that you can take the next steps in your own practice as powerfully as possible. This is a short episode with a lot inside, and I will see you on the other side.

Ali Katz:
All right, Steve, so you have not yet had your first two practice clients. Is that what I'm hearing?

Steve:
Yes. Yes, that's right. Myself and my former client service person, we had sent out, you know, a lot of different letters trying to get some people in, but it was kind of a while back, and, you know, I just need a little more assistance with trying to get some practice clients that, of course, I could do at a discounted rate for.

Ali Katz:
Uh huh. How many people have you actually spoken to, voice to voice, you know, about estate planning, about their experience with estate planning, wills or trusts, you know, using the curiosity questions?

Steve:
I would say about two to three.

Ali Katz:
Okay, so that's not enough people to start. Tell me, guess a little bit about what happened in those conversations.

Steve:
Well, you know, I. Most of it was trying to get them to understand exactly how the process goes. I mean, of course, they were asking questions about price. Price was, you know, a lot of concern. However, you know, some of the questions helped kind of guide exactly how I was structuring, informing them about the whole process. But after doing that, I mean, it seemed like they were well informed on everything, but sometimes I would try to follow up and they wouldn't really get back to me.

Ali Katz:
Yeah. So here's what I'm hearing in what you said is that you were telling them things instead of getting curious with them. Does that sound true?

Steve:
Partially, yeah. I think I was asking them quite a bit of questions, but they were more wanting to find out certain things and just say, oh, okay, I got the information. Let me, you know, let me do this, let me do that. So, yeah.

Ali Katz:
Right. So it's really important. This is one of the big shifts that all of us as lawyers really get to start to make, and that is going from somebody who tells people things to somebody who is curious with people and is connecting with people at a different level. Right. So a lot of times, people don't want to work with lawyers because of certain traits that we as lawyers, just maybe naturally have. We're more trying to educate people instead of really learn what's important to them. So we go to them in ways that they feel maybe that we have an agenda and we're trying to push something. And then if we do educate them, all that we've actually done is maybe made them think that they have all the answers.

Ali Katz:
Now, your job, Steve, is to shift that and go into every conversation that you're having with somebody with curiosity around what is actually true for them about their current reality when it comes to what will happen if they become incapacitated or when they die.

Steve:
Gotcha.

Ali Katz:
And then if they have questions about their specific situation, that's when you say, well, the best way for me to actually help you get your questions answered is through this family wealth planning session process, where we can look together at your family dynamics and your assets and the law and what actually would happen in the event of your incapacity or death, and then through that by looking specifically at your unique situation. Because there's not any one size fits all answers here. We can then look at if the state's plan for you is what you would want or if not, what we would be able to put in place to make sure that things would go the way that you want in the event of an incapacity or death. So if you're in a conversation where you're answering questions for people about their specific situation, you've missed the opportunity at that point, because the only place you should ever be answering any questions is in the family wealth planning session. Now, if the questions are about your process, that's a different thing.

Ali Katz:
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Steve:
Yeah, that's the questions that I get. It's not just, okay, well, how much do you think it's going to cost me? You know, give a ballpark estimate, everything. I mean, of course I get those questions. Those almost always happen. But, you know, they're wanting to know exactly what goes into, you know, the whole thing.

Ali Katz:
Well, right. And so you mastering the answer to that being what goes into the whole thing is that you start with a family wealth planning session, because you can't say what goes into the whole thing for them. And anybody who would just tell them what they should do without really understanding their family dynamics and their assets and how the law would apply and what they actually want for the people that they love is giving them bad guidance. Because how could anybody even know what the answers to those questions would be without taking them through a process? And then you get to say, and so my normal process is that this family wealth planning session is $750. But if you want to have that at no charge, what you can do is complete this homework ahead of time, which the homework in and of itself is very important for you, because if you were to become incapacitated or die right now, your family would have no idea what you have. It could be lost to the State Department of Unclaimed Property. It could create a big mess for the people that you love, because they would have no idea how to find anything. So you doing this homework ahead of time is very valuable for the people that you love that would be dealing with things in the event something happens to you. You complete that homework and submit it to me ahead of time, and I'll waive the $750 planning session fee. And then in that meeting, we will be able to look at what you have, what would happen to it, what the cost would be if you do nothing for your family. And then what would the cost be to actually put in place a plan that would work for the people you love. And so if you want to do that process with me and really get clear on what you need, then we can have a family wealth planning session on either Friday the 15th or Tuesday the 22nd, and we'll get you the homework ahead of time. You can complete it and get it back to us. Which one of those dates is best for you

Steve:
Okay.

Ali Katz:
Does that make sense?

Steve:
Yeah. No, absolutely. Everything is trying to guide them to actually do the family wealth planning session, you know, and make it so that all of their answers reside there once they attend.

Ali Katz:
Exactly. That's the way to get all their answers, because you can't actually, you can't possibly give them any personal answers without that. And again, I would just keep reinforcing that. Anybody who is giving them answers is giving them a partial solution that is very likely going to leave their family with a mess, possibly in court, possibly in conflict, if something happens to them, because it's not tailored to what they actually want, what their personal situation is. Now, the way to get into that conversation is with the curiosity questions. Have you ever thought about estate planning? Have you ever created a will or a trust? Why or why not? What was that experience like? Have you ever had a family member who died? What was that like? You know, how was dealing with their assets and family matters after that. And then, you know, having some of those estate planning stories ready so that instead of answering questions about their specific situation, you're prepared with a story that might match an experience that they've had.

Steve:
Got it.

Ali Katz:
Okay. So what I'd love for you to do is to make a commitment to yourself. How soon do you need to be at a place where this practice is running at full capacity?

Steve:
Definitely. I mean, as soon as possible.

Ali Katz:
Okay, so I want you to set a date for yourself, right. Because as soon as possible is vague and can leave plenty of room, you know, for you to kind of flounder around. And so instead, what I want you to do is I want you to set some very clear dates and goals for yourself where by x date and you decide that based on your own personal reality, you are going to be ready to market your services. And by x date you are going to have your two practice clients done. And then backing into, okay, on that basis, I am going to commit to speaking to x number of people. And that could be 10, 15, 20. 2-3 is not enough.

Ali Katz:
10, 15, 20 people and asking them the curiosity questions to get into a conversation with them. Voice to voice. Could be on Zoom, could be on a phone call where you're basically just doing kind of market research to find out how do the people in your community think about or have handled estate planning in the past. So it's not even about, I'm asking these questions because I'm trying to get you as a client. I'm asking you these questions for market research purposes.

Steve:
Okay, would that be with new people, like older, I mean, like past clients?

Ali Katz:
As many people as you can. Like even, you said you're going to a hearing in 20 minutes?

Steve:
Yeah, yeah.

Ali Katz:
You might meet somebody at that hearing just say, hey, you know, I'm making this transition into estate planning and I'm curious about your own experience with estate planning. Have you created a will or a trust? What was that like? Has anybody in your family ever died? You can ask these questions of anybody because everybody is somebody that has an answer that's going to help you to know how are the people in your world thinking about these matters? And I want you to get really comfortable with saying, I'm making a transition into estate planning so that I can serve the people in our community better. And I'd love to check in with you and see if I can ask a couple questions about estate planning in your life and in your family.

Steve:
Yeah, okay.

Ali Katz:
Yeah. And if you've set your specific goals, date specific, you know, your focus is going towards that date, towards those goals all the time.

Steve:
Yeah, okay.

Ali Katz:
Okay. Thanks, Steve. Keep us posted. And this goes for all of you. If you all do not currently have your next goal of how many people you're going to talk to this week and ask the curiosity questions, as an example, in service to getting your first two practice clients on board, set that goal for yourself so that you have the greatest chance of success.

Ali Katz:
I hope you loved that episode as much as I did. And now you might have some clarity about where you're actually answering too many questions at the wrong time, telling people things instead of inspiring them to take the next step with you. And if you would love us to help you take the next steps into a business you love with life and legacy planning on our path to PFL, go to newlaw.co/show and get on the calendar so we can determine if you will be our next inevitable success story with absolutely guaranteed results. If you like the process you heard about on today's call, go to newlaw.co/show. Don't reinvent the wheel. Let us support you. Book a call with a law business advisor and I will see you on the inside.